Talat Mahmood by Naushad and C Ramchandra

Rakesh ji,

The music of Naghma was scored by Naashad of “Baradari” fame.

AK ji,
Many Thanks. It is generally believed that Naushad found Talat saab smoking and was deeply offended. He decided to go for only Rafi in Baiju Bawra which Rafi saab grabbed with both hands to the extent that Naushad never had to look for anyone else later on.

It is difficult for me to imagine Talat singing the songs which Rafi saab sung for Naushad, but then Talat definitely deserved many more songs.

Apart from Babul and Aadmi, Talat joined in a chorus song sung by 5-6 male singers in the disastrously made movie “Love and God” for Naushad.

I do agree with you view that Babul was effectively first and last film of Talat saab for Naushad. You are spot on.

Many Thanks.

Is this mentioned? http://youtu.be/RNzG5viyLmc

http://youtu.be/T3Wv19bWSLc
(…apni nakami se mujhko kaam hai…..)
..SUBAH KA TARA ( 1954)…
talat mehmood/CR

Mahesh (comment 4),
The reason given by you for Naushad being offended may be correct and Naushad did not give him more songs due to that. But, it is not correct that Naushad used Rafi so extensively in Talat’s absence. In an interview I heard Naushad say that he had rehearsed Rafi for the tunes which he used in Deedar at the time of Dulari. Otherwise also Rafi had sung 15 songs before Babul for Naushad with the famous classic solos in Anmol Ghadi, Mela, Dillagi and Dulari. After Babul and before Baiju Bawra he used Rafi in Deedar, Jadoo, Aan and Deewana extensively. His decision to use Rafi was pre-Babul. In Babul – which was his home production – he gave Talat to provide a fillip to his career. Though he did not give him any other songs, but he signed Talat as singing star for his home production Maalik and he assigned its music to Ghulam Mohammad either because he did not want to compose for him or because he was busy.

Otherwise also, as you agree Talat could not have fitted in songs which were for Rafi. At best he could have a few songs in Shabab or Sohni Mahiwal.

AKji,

Thanks for bringing out a bouquet of my favorite singer’s songs. Talat’s voice is an epitome of pure melody and creates an aura of peace whenever I listen to him.

I wonder why CR, after all the great creations for Talat, suddenly stopped using him after Baarish (1957)! One of my favorite CR-Talat-Lata combos is “Kisine mujhko mere ghar” from Parcchain. What a melody and what a rhythm!

Had Naushad used Talat in Deedar for the song “Huye hum jinke liye”, he would have taken it to a different level!

Hansji,

In my opinion, Talat’s songs in Babul are terrific, but Anilda’s compositions for Talat are in a different zone altogether!

How I wish Talat did not lose his voice quality that early:-(

Hans ji,
Your correction about my comment does make lot of sense. Thanks.
It is also to be noted that Naushad used a large number of singers pre Lata-Rafi era with very high success rate. For example in “Dard” he used three different female singers on three separate actresses. So in this initial period for example in Andaz, Mela etc, Rafi saab was given second preference after Mukesh.
I think Mukesh moving to SJ camp and his decision to become a singer actor and the Talat incident made Naushad stick to Rafi.
It will be extremely difficult to guess how Naushad would have accommodated Mukesh and Talat had it not been for the above reasons.

Dear AKji,
Wonderful article. All the songs you have cited are beautiful. I will like to make a few observations.
1) Whatever was the reason due to which Naushad eliminated Talat from his music we will never know. However, I agree with you that he should have used him to sing the tunes which suited Talat. About CR, my view is that he was enchanted with Lata’s voice so much that, he didn’t have too much time for his male singers. I strongly feel that most of the songs that he himself sung would have sounded much better if he had used Rafi or Talat to sing them. As an example, in Albela there is only one Lata/Rafi duet in which Rafi has done such a wonderful job that you can’t help wishing that CR had used Rafi or Talat for that matter in the other duets also. Mind you, CR did sing them OK, but still you feel something missing. Could it be that, he was so much into Lata fixation that, he delibrately had the male part playing second fiddle to her & hence sang many duets himself?
2) I feel that Talat sang a number great songs for Madan Mohan, which according to me are equally good (actually for my taste, some are even better than those you have listed). I personally feel that Madan used him very well. In many comments AB is mentioned, but nobody has mentioned Madan Mohan.
3) The film industry is very commercial. That’s the main reason, I suppose, why Talat slowly got sidetracked & eventually went into oblivion, which was very sad.

Ravindra kelkar ‘ji ; It is very difficult to trace the diminishing of Talat from Naushad’s camp after so many hits . Is it due to rapid modernisation and urbanisation wherein the demand of Rock ‘ n’ roll and later on Elvis and Beatle style music emerged which only Rafi , Lata and others could cope with . During 60s Naushad continued with Rafi- Lata combo and gave excellent score in Sohni mahiwal, Amar and Kohinoor followed by Mere mehboob , Leader , Palki , etc . though Naushad sticks to his guns [ lata-rafi] but his music sort of faded with the modern times . As correctly said Talat’s loss was MM, SJ, OP, CR and other MDs gain . Talat was hit in other camps as well and gave beautiful songs like Pyar par bus to nahi hai, Andhe jahan ke andhe raaste , jain to jaain kahan, koi nahi mera is jahan mein , tujhe apne paas bulati hai teri duniya, hum gam ke maroan ka bus itna fassana hai, humse aaya na gaya , apni kaho ya meri suno kya dil ka laggana bhul gaye , jalte hain jinke liye ………and so many others. As such the true followers of good music did not really felt any distraction and continued to relish the sweet melodies of that era .

Dear AKji, I agree the other Albela songs are greater hits. That’s not the point. The quality of final output of the song would have been better if they had been sung by Rafi/Talat. However, this is a purely subjective view point. I always have agreed with the view that the quality of the tune is the decisive factor for the song. If the tune is good, the song is going to be appreciated, even if it is rendered by a competent singer, instead of the best singer available. So CR did a very competent job in singing those duets, & the tune were so good, that rest is history. As I said this is purely my opinion, so take my comments in that spirit.

KB,
You have made the following two statements.

1. “Had Naushad used Talat in Deedar for the song “Huye hum jinke liye”, he would have taken it to a different level! ”

2. “In my opinion, Talat’s songs in Babul are terrific, but Anilda’s compositions for Talat are in a different zone altogether!”

From the first statement we come to a conclusion that Naushad-Talat would have beeen in a different level as against Naushad-Rafi. The second statement means Biswas-Talat is again in a different zone as against Naushad-Talat. So after 1950 Naushad was dealing in Rafi and Biswas was – till 1954 – with Talat. Perhaps the Indian public could not understand this ‘different zone + different level’ team and were foolish enough to appreciate the inferior team. The public foolishness lead Biswas – who had declared Rafi no singer – to go to Rafi post-1954.

I would not say Rafi would have sung this or that song rendered by Talat better, because, firstly I have a huge respect for Talat and secondly I like AK and others of the view that once a singer sings a song that is fixed in our memory as his song.

I agree with you that Talat’s voice problems which were due to a physical defect deprived us of the possibility of so many other gems, which would have provided music lovers with much more variety. I am also of the view that Talat was a class singer and he dealt in the limited range because of this defect and if he did not have it he would have been a tough competition for Rafi.

That is an interesting song Hans, the one from Shatranj , I think it is set primarily in raga Bageshri and brings to mind C Ramchandra’s earlier composition “jaag dard e ishq” from Anarkali in the same raga. The duet in the same film “hawa hai sard” especially the arrangement reminds me of Chitragupta’s “Do dil dhadak rahe hai” .

Sorry I meant the Lata solo “Hawa hai sard”. The duet was “Do dil dhadak rahe hai”. Mixed them up.

AK, (comment 19)
About the CR-Rafi and CR-Talat relationship, there are two points. One is that there was no chance of CR coming in top five looking at the enormous amount of songs by a number of MDs and a long list of Rafi greats. But, there is another vital difference. Of the 16 Talat duets Lata was with him in 12 and in two more Rafi and Talat were both present. Of the Rafi 55 duets Lata was there in just 10. Asha sang 10 with Rafi though she started off in 1955. As most agree that CR cared only for Lata, so that made a difference. Rafi also had 16 songs which had 3 or 4 singers and we know such songs are hardly remembered. Another reason CR may be among top 5 MDs for Talat is because he has not many songs with other MDs also. In fact 26 is the highest number for an MD with Talat. Next best is Madan Mohan with 23. So far as solos are concerned Rafi has the better results, though people like KB who say ‘Talat any day over Rafi’ would not agree.

Regarding Anil Biswas, I have not said anything which can be called harsh. I just stated the facts. Success is more important in films. Hundreds of examples can be cited. I would cite the example of Dosti which was a bit hit with Rafi playbacking for Sudhir Kumar, which fact is known to every film lover. But, how many people know that the same Sudhir Kumar played Sant Gyaneshwar in the film of the same name which also came in the same year and MD was also the same.

I have always said Biswas is great MD and has given us great songs, but that cannot chang the fact that after Kismat he did not give a single hit film and Naushad gave several. He and his supporters have tried to balance deficiency in success by through propaganda. He launches the career of Talat by one song in a flop film, but Naushad does not do that even when he gives him a hit with seven songs. Same about Mukesh whom Naushad gave three consecutive jubilee hits, but Biswas is called the maker of Mukesh on the basis of flop films. Nobody knew Zohrabai, but when Naushad made her famous, Biswas comes saying that he gave her first break, which was not true. It was circulated that Biswas encouraged Talat to sing with tremolo, though he never gave him a song after 1954. Talat started to feel the impact of tremolo from 1955 onwards. Actually, it was Madan Mohan who gave Talat songs regularly and in Jahanara he had to convince the reluctant Talat to sing. You call Naushad the new Biswas, but would you call Madan Mohan or Roshan the new Naushad. Biswas was never called the new Boral or Mallick. In my view every great MD is unique, though they may have some common traits. In the case of Naushad and Biswas I am quite sure they have very little similarity, if any.

Regarding his solos, I have perhaps not been able to convey what I meant. I wanted to say that Biswas gave Talat the kind of solos, which were to his liking and which he came to be known for. Talat was so adept at such songs that he sang great songs for a number of Mds. He sang ‘jab chhaye kabhi sawan ki ghata’ for Babul. I kept his duets separate because I believe Biswas gave him variety in the duets.

I have watched about a dozen films of Biswas, which not many of his greatest fans be able to claim. And you know you can best appreciate the music by watching a film. Whenever I have a special Talat session ‘mohabbat tarq ki maine’ is one of the first few songs in the list.

Hansji,

Thanks for the reply.

You wrote:

Perhaps the Indian public could not understand this ‘different zone + different level’ team and were foolish enough to appreciate the inferior team. The public foolishness lead Biswas – who had declared Rafi no singer – to go to Rafi post-1954.

If I were to go by the public opinion, I would buy a collection of Kumar Sanu hits! Though I certainly agree with you that Naushad was more successful than Anil Biswas, I would say that Anilda had more creativity in his music. And as far as my personal taste is concerned, I like Anilda’s music better. So, I am not concerned with what the box office numbers were. I have heard Talat’s interviews (seen them too). He had no reservations in saying that Anil Biswas was the one who gave him the break in Mumbai. Whether Arzoo was a hit or a flop, it only mattered that Anil Biswas had used Talat, and so other music directors started calling him. Do you disagree?

And coming to Rafi, if someone asked me whether Rafi was the most versatile singer, I would emphatically say yes. If someone asked me if he was “the” best singer, I would emphatically say no. He was certainly one of the best singers of the country, but Talat touched my heart better. The reason I gave the example of “Huye hum jinke liye” from Deedar is because Talat’s voice had an inherent tinge of sadness in it. He did not have to rely on theatrics (ex.: sobbing etc..) as Rafi had to do in umpteen songs of this genre. Even if Talat whispered, it was music – that was the quality of his voice. Same with Mukesh too.

But when it came to overall range in the voice, Rafi towered over others. And again to me, S D Burman brought out the best in Rafi.

KB,
Thanks for speaking your mind. I believe in frank discussion and you have shown an inclination to that and I appreciate that.

I dont know which public is advising you to buy Kumar Sanu hits, because I heard that his songs are not remembered after a fortnight. I could have written 10 pages about this aspect, but after your comparison of Naushad-Rafi with Kumar Sanu it would be pointless. It would suffice to say that society has changed drastically in 70-80 years and we cannot speak for or comment on the public of the bygone era. Even today’s society is mixed. When the Guru of this Sanu in association with RDB and Bappi helped the falling standards of hfm, the non-film music in the shape of ghazals and bhajans revived which had almost become extinct during golden-era. Do you consider these old songs blogs like SOY and others who appreciate Naushad and Rafi as part of public which you mention.

You say that you agree with me that Naushad was more successful as if there was scope of disagreement. Your simply saying that Biswas was more creative would not lead us anywhere because I can say that Naushad or Khem Chand Prakash or Gyan dutt was more creative. Creativity also includes versatility and on both fields Biswas lost out to Naushad and fell way behind and it was even not the case of a close fight. On the other hand CR despite his fixation on Lata gave variety and also gave Naushad a run for his money.

You are relying on the interview of Talat. Talat being a great singer does not mean what he says is always the truth. What happened to Sudha Malhotra’s claims about Arzoo have been discussed on SOY. Firstly, it is a wrong thing to differentiate between Calcutta songs and Bombay songs. That would mean all Calcutta music by the likes of Boral, Mallick, Timir Baran did not exist. Why that distinction is not made in the case of KL Saigal. This distinction is made to give Anil Biswas a chance to be shown as giving Talat a break, because everybody knows that Talat sang a lot in Calcutta for Bengali as well as Hindi films and also non-film ghazals. Talat himself claims that he was well known all over India for his ghazal ‘tasveer teri dil mera bahla na sakegi’, when he came to Bombay. Secondly, even in Bombay he had sung songs for others in 1949 – 1 song in Rakhi (Husnlal-Bhagatram) and 2 songs in Swayamsidhha (Praful Chaudhary). By the record numbers it appears that 1950 film Anmol Rattan (Vinod) was released before Arzoo and Talat had 3 songs in it. Even among Babul and Arzoo it is more probable that the songs of Babul – at least a few – were recorded first, because Naushad is known to take a lot of time in composing his music and by the record numbers of these two films it appears that the gap between release of Arzoo and Babul was anything between 2-4 months. Since Babul was produced by Naushad himself and also this being his first as producer, it is more likely that he was more meticulous about its music. Dilip being a common hero in these two films, it is more likely that he himself suggested to Biswas to use Talat for him because he was being used in Babul.

..to be continued..

KB,
I have forgotten to add one thing. Perhaps the only one strongest proof which would clearly establish that Rafi was a better singer than Talat is that Lata had never any reservations about singing duets with Talat, but she was fearful of having to sing them with Rafi. This much is clear from the figures of duets of Lata with them under the baton of CR. I can provide more figures if you desire. Later she contrived to stop singing duets with Rafi in the 60s under the pretext of the royalty issue, when Rafi was murdering her in duets.

Dear AKji,

I apologize for using your blog for this stretched discussion. Hope you do not mind.

Hansji,

The reason I gave Kumar Sanu example was not to compare Naushad-Rafi with Kumar Sanu. But I wanted to make a point that public opinion does not always guarantee that the music/singer/MD is better than the one that is not appreciated.

Versatility and creativity do not need to go hand in hand. Those are two different qualities. Most of Naushad’s semi-classical creations are simple and eminently hummable but listen to Biswas’ creations – they provide unexpected twists and turns, and sometimes cross the boundaries of ragas almost seamlessly. (Ex.: Main unki ban jaaun re). I agree that he was not a force of reckoning when it came to box office. But that has happened to many a genius (Ex.: Sajjad, Madan Mohan), and that is no yardstick for recognizing creativity. Ultimately whom you like is a personal choice, that’s all.

Regarding Talat’s entry in Mumbai, I’m aware that he was a singing sensation in Bengal before he came to Mumbai. But getting recognition in Mumbai was a different affair. Even R.C.Boral and Pankaj Mullick were legends in Bengal, but I don’t think they got any success in Mumbai. I know there were a couple songs of Talat (Rakhi – 1949 and Wafa – 1950 were recorded before Arzoo). But Arzoo was the first major break that he got in Mumbai, and I do not see any issue with him emphasizing the Biswas connection here. I have heard Mukesh’s interview, and he too mistakenly says that Dil Jalta Hai was his first song! I don’t think they were lying here.Whether Naushad was going to release Babul before Arzoo is just hair-splitting. It is just that Biswas-Talat combo worked for longer.

Now coming to Talat’s voice in taking an alaap – please listen to the alaap in Dil Matwala Lakh Sambhala (Bewafa – 1952) and in Sapnon ki suhaani (Shikast – 1953). Those are more elaborate than the one in Huye hum jinke liye. True, Talat was not a classical singer, neither was Rafi. As to sobbing in Rafi’s songs, please listen to songs from Balam, Bansariya, Barsaat etc.. Take the song “Chal Ud Jaare Panchi” from Bhabhi. Rafi has sung it well, but listen to the way he throws the word “chal” in the beginning of the song. The mood of the song is one of resignation after hopelessness. His “chal” conveys an absolutely opposite mood! Listen to Talat in the same song, he delivers “chal” in the right mood. I cannot have enough of Talat’s “Mitva” from Devdas. He has lived the character in that song. I know Talat’s voice was not suitable for songs that required more robust singing and for songs that required more volume in singer’s voice (due to extremely loud orchestration). But so what, whatever he sung, he sung perfectly well, and that’s all that matters!

As to me liking Bengali MDs, I do but I like the Punjabi team of Ghulam Haider, Pandit Amarnath, Shyam Sunder and Vinod too – great music directors. And needless to say – Khayyam also brought out a different Rafi.

By the way I like Rafi – CR combo in “Kehke bhi na aaye tum” (Safar), “Rona hai to aye dil” (Duniya) and “Mera Mijaaz” (Saqi) – and Rafi-Naushad combo in “Suhani Raat” (Dulari), “Tere Kooche” (Dillagi), and “Insaan Bano”.

In the end, I feel Rafi was a generalist, Talat was a specialist. Naushad created jubilee hits, Anilda created sheer magic.

One correction in my previous post – It was Anmol Rattan of Vinod and not Wafa that was recorded before Arzoo.

Akji,
Visiting the recent post that I have missed out. Talat Mahmood’s songs are a pleasure to listen, in his unique voice. Thank you for the wonderful songs.

As per number of films Nauashad – Talat Mahmood association might have been the shortest, nevertheless it was a great success. Without going into any comparisons or reasons, I would say that it was our misfortune / loss that their association was short lived. We could have had more. The songs of Babul remain a testimony to this. In spite of Dilip Kumar’s insistence Talat had to turn down the offer to sing in Azaad. Yes, he was truly very busy then. Talat had roughly 28 films with 51 songs that year. That was 1955. Talat was at his peak of his carreer. Between 1953 and 1955 Talat had rendered more 150 songs. But the story was different in the late sixties. Beside the film Aadmi (1968), where he was replaced by Mahendra Kapoor at the insistence of Manoj Kumar, Talat had to face a similar situation in 1967. Naushad had mentioned this in one of his interviews. The film was Palki. Naushad had asked Talat to sing and the songs were recorded and picturised. But the original director died and the new director at insistence of Rajendra Kumar wanted the songs to be rerecorded in the voice of Md.Rafi. Although Naushad had not mentioned the songs, but I think they were “Kal Raat Zindagi se and Chehre se apne aaj to purdah uthaiye. Our informed readers can confirm/ correct me.

I never expected a post on Talat Mahmood to generate such a vibrant discussion. It was an experience in itself. Thanks to Hans ji, Bhatia ji, Mumbaikar j JI and others.

Thank you Akji .

It’s teamwork with compatibility that lead to popular gems of Naushad, Shakeel, Dilip and Rafi

Same is true with Anil Biswas, Talat Mehmood. But the latter team lacked a popular leading male actor. Otherwise, Talat’s should have equal chances.
But one has to remember that Rafi acted the songs whereas Talat sang the songs